Seriously cool. I love the wheels and wide arches, together they look brilliant.
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Not So Retro Now
Started by paul gti, Mar 27 2009 10:29 PM
94 replies to this topic
#81
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Posted 24 October 2010 - 09:23 PM
#82
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Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:54 PM
Christian, on 24 October 2010 - 09:23 PM, said:
Seriously cool. I love the wheels and wide arches, together they look brilliant.
To be honest ....I don't!
I hate this trend towards 'stretching' tyres onto overly wide rims.
Either the tyres are too narrow or the wheels are too wide depending on the perspective. Wheels on the wide side of a typical tyres fitment range can improve handling as the sidewall can't move so much (the tyre manufacturer should be able to recommend maximum rim widths), but 'stretching' much beyond this point is both pointless and potentialy dangerous.
I can't honestly say I'm surprised there was a failure.
Anybody who decides to run wheel/ tyre combinations like this will not only have no claim on either the wheel or tyre manufacturer in the event of a catastrophic failure, but could also have a problem if it is spotted by an on-the-ball traffic cop, and could also find their insurance company might not be too impressed....
I don't mean to pour water on the fire, but any failure like that must ring a warning bell that the tyre was never designed to be run like that?
#83
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Posted 28 October 2010 - 11:04 PM
Pic Whoring
Went out for a drive tonight first time in ages me and shakey and some tunes, he got busy with the camera too
Went out for a drive tonight first time in ages me and shakey and some tunes, he got busy with the camera too
#85
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Posted 29 October 2010 - 11:54 PM
i know people who have run streched tyres for years on cars and its not a new thing. the only reason for the faliure was the sealant on the 3 piece split due to the powdercoat it didnt adhere proprely. and there is nothing un mot'able about a streched tyre, as long as the tread is within the arch i will pass. i know this for a fact as my best friend had a VOSA mot done on his golf with far more strech than i am running and it passed with flying colours
#86
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Posted 30 October 2010 - 09:44 AM
Sorry, I can't agree with that.
The MOT test as you say does not usually take this into consideration on cars (but it very much DOES on HGV testing), as long as the tyre is otherwise legal.
The main problem is the shape that the tyre carcas takes up in some of the extreme over- stretching.
If you think of how the internal air pressure works to locate the beads fully into the rim of the wheel there is no getting away from the fact that there is a greatly increased risk of a tyre demounting when incorrectly sized for a rim like this.
Tyre manufacturers freely supply suitable rim mounting sizes and suggested pressures, and while these might not be the only ones possible for any particular tyre or fitment they have very good reasons for making these minimum and maximum rim width specifications.
Neither an MOT tester nor a traffic cop will have this information to hand, but if a serious accident were to happen which could in any way be attributed to this be very sure that it will be investigated.
At the very least, make sure that your insurance company have full and complete details of these changes... which is not to say that they would still give cover if this was proven to be the cause of an accident anyway!
I have personally seen problems with this a few times now. To be fair a couple of those were due to damage of the sidewall having picked up road debris (FOD) and puncturing as they are thinner and more vulnerable to this than the proper tread surface. More worryingly though I've seen some where the tyre has shown signs of overheating and delamination of the area immediately next to the edge of the tread which has caused problems.
Your tyres don't actually look to be too bad at all on those wheels, but in some cases the 'undertyring' is just plain ridiculous. Tyre fitters are vulnerable to prosecution for this.
Up to a point a rim on the wide end of the tyres fitment range is good for lateral grip as the tread is held more rigidly under cornering loads and the tyre is less likely to 'squirm', although this it the expense of some loss of ride quality over a narrower rim.
Beyond that point though grip is lost again, as an aspect of the sidewalls ability to deflect vertically under load gives it an element of inbuilt 'suspension' that both helps keep the tread contact patch in better contact with the road surface and damps out some of the surface undulations. Usually a wider section tyre would just work far better!
So, in addition to being potentially more dangerous, more liable to sudden deflation and even illegal for the different reasons mentioned, it will often also give reductions in both grip and ride quality. That sounds awfully like lose-lose to me.
Don't get me wrong..... I'm the last person to want to hammer another nail into the coffin of vehicle modification, but we have to go into it with our eyes open. The UK is now one of the least restrictive countries for this, certainly in Europe, and I hope that doesn't change.
I must admit that the point of this particular trend has me baffled though?
The MOT test as you say does not usually take this into consideration on cars (but it very much DOES on HGV testing), as long as the tyre is otherwise legal.
The main problem is the shape that the tyre carcas takes up in some of the extreme over- stretching.
If you think of how the internal air pressure works to locate the beads fully into the rim of the wheel there is no getting away from the fact that there is a greatly increased risk of a tyre demounting when incorrectly sized for a rim like this.
Tyre manufacturers freely supply suitable rim mounting sizes and suggested pressures, and while these might not be the only ones possible for any particular tyre or fitment they have very good reasons for making these minimum and maximum rim width specifications.
Neither an MOT tester nor a traffic cop will have this information to hand, but if a serious accident were to happen which could in any way be attributed to this be very sure that it will be investigated.
At the very least, make sure that your insurance company have full and complete details of these changes... which is not to say that they would still give cover if this was proven to be the cause of an accident anyway!
I have personally seen problems with this a few times now. To be fair a couple of those were due to damage of the sidewall having picked up road debris (FOD) and puncturing as they are thinner and more vulnerable to this than the proper tread surface. More worryingly though I've seen some where the tyre has shown signs of overheating and delamination of the area immediately next to the edge of the tread which has caused problems.
Your tyres don't actually look to be too bad at all on those wheels, but in some cases the 'undertyring' is just plain ridiculous. Tyre fitters are vulnerable to prosecution for this.
Up to a point a rim on the wide end of the tyres fitment range is good for lateral grip as the tread is held more rigidly under cornering loads and the tyre is less likely to 'squirm', although this it the expense of some loss of ride quality over a narrower rim.
Beyond that point though grip is lost again, as an aspect of the sidewalls ability to deflect vertically under load gives it an element of inbuilt 'suspension' that both helps keep the tread contact patch in better contact with the road surface and damps out some of the surface undulations. Usually a wider section tyre would just work far better!
So, in addition to being potentially more dangerous, more liable to sudden deflation and even illegal for the different reasons mentioned, it will often also give reductions in both grip and ride quality. That sounds awfully like lose-lose to me.
Don't get me wrong..... I'm the last person to want to hammer another nail into the coffin of vehicle modification, but we have to go into it with our eyes open. The UK is now one of the least restrictive countries for this, certainly in Europe, and I hope that doesn't change.
I must admit that the point of this particular trend has me baffled though?
#88
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Posted 31 October 2010 - 09:19 AM
Whiteblock, on 30 October 2010 - 09:44 AM, said:
Sorry, I can't agree with that.
The MOT test as you say does not usually take this into consideration on cars (but it very much DOES on HGV testing), as long as the tyre is otherwise legal.
The main problem is the shape that the tyre carcas takes up in some of the extreme over- stretching.
If you think of how the internal air pressure works to locate the beads fully into the rim of the wheel there is no getting away from the fact that there is a greatly increased risk of a tyre demounting when incorrectly sized for a rim like this.
Tyre manufacturers freely supply suitable rim mounting sizes and suggested pressures, and while these might not be the only ones possible for any particular tyre or fitment they have very good reasons for making these minimum and maximum rim width specifications.
Neither an MOT tester nor a traffic cop will have this information to hand, but if a serious accident were to happen which could in any way be attributed to this be very sure that it will be investigated.
At the very least, make sure that your insurance company have full and complete details of these changes... which is not to say that they would still give cover if this was proven to be the cause of an accident anyway!
I have personally seen problems with this a few times now. To be fair a couple of those were due to damage of the sidewall having picked up road debris (FOD) and puncturing as they are thinner and more vulnerable to this than the proper tread surface. More worryingly though I've seen some where the tyre has shown signs of overheating and delamination of the area immediately next to the edge of the tread which has caused problems.
Your tyres don't actually look to be too bad at all on those wheels, but in some cases the 'undertyring' is just plain ridiculous. Tyre fitters are vulnerable to prosecution for this.
Up to a point a rim on the wide end of the tyres fitment range is good for lateral grip as the tread is held more rigidly under cornering loads and the tyre is less likely to 'squirm', although this it the expense of some loss of ride quality over a narrower rim.
Beyond that point though grip is lost again, as an aspect of the sidewalls ability to deflect vertically under load gives it an element of inbuilt 'suspension' that both helps keep the tread contact patch in better contact with the road surface and damps out some of the surface undulations. Usually a wider section tyre would just work far better!
So, in addition to being potentially more dangerous, more liable to sudden deflation and even illegal for the different reasons mentioned, it will often also give reductions in both grip and ride quality. That sounds awfully like lose-lose to me.
Don't get me wrong..... I'm the last person to want to hammer another nail into the coffin of vehicle modification, but we have to go into it with our eyes open. The UK is now one of the least restrictive countries for this, certainly in Europe, and I hope that doesn't change.
I must admit that the point of this particular trend has me baffled though?
The MOT test as you say does not usually take this into consideration on cars (but it very much DOES on HGV testing), as long as the tyre is otherwise legal.
The main problem is the shape that the tyre carcas takes up in some of the extreme over- stretching.
If you think of how the internal air pressure works to locate the beads fully into the rim of the wheel there is no getting away from the fact that there is a greatly increased risk of a tyre demounting when incorrectly sized for a rim like this.
Tyre manufacturers freely supply suitable rim mounting sizes and suggested pressures, and while these might not be the only ones possible for any particular tyre or fitment they have very good reasons for making these minimum and maximum rim width specifications.
Neither an MOT tester nor a traffic cop will have this information to hand, but if a serious accident were to happen which could in any way be attributed to this be very sure that it will be investigated.
At the very least, make sure that your insurance company have full and complete details of these changes... which is not to say that they would still give cover if this was proven to be the cause of an accident anyway!
I have personally seen problems with this a few times now. To be fair a couple of those were due to damage of the sidewall having picked up road debris (FOD) and puncturing as they are thinner and more vulnerable to this than the proper tread surface. More worryingly though I've seen some where the tyre has shown signs of overheating and delamination of the area immediately next to the edge of the tread which has caused problems.
Your tyres don't actually look to be too bad at all on those wheels, but in some cases the 'undertyring' is just plain ridiculous. Tyre fitters are vulnerable to prosecution for this.
Up to a point a rim on the wide end of the tyres fitment range is good for lateral grip as the tread is held more rigidly under cornering loads and the tyre is less likely to 'squirm', although this it the expense of some loss of ride quality over a narrower rim.
Beyond that point though grip is lost again, as an aspect of the sidewalls ability to deflect vertically under load gives it an element of inbuilt 'suspension' that both helps keep the tread contact patch in better contact with the road surface and damps out some of the surface undulations. Usually a wider section tyre would just work far better!
So, in addition to being potentially more dangerous, more liable to sudden deflation and even illegal for the different reasons mentioned, it will often also give reductions in both grip and ride quality. That sounds awfully like lose-lose to me.
Don't get me wrong..... I'm the last person to want to hammer another nail into the coffin of vehicle modification, but we have to go into it with our eyes open. The UK is now one of the least restrictive countries for this, certainly in Europe, and I hope that doesn't change.
I must admit that the point of this particular trend has me baffled though?
al of this has some kind of truth but the car is ver well looked after and presures tested on a regular basis ( unlike most of the normal cars on the road) they are brand new tyres, the car is only really used to go to shows or for the odd drive in the evening, it doesnt go overly fast anymore due to the hard ride, the trend as i see it is about smooth / flushness geting the rim as flush to the arch as possible, its each to their own i guess but im now happy with how it is starting to look and is by no means going to be used for more than 5k miles a year,
#90
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Posted 03 January 2011 - 04:44 PM
Those wheels really are astonishing, a perfect match.
#91
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Posted 03 January 2011 - 05:16 PM
that is a nice looking 106 and i'm not a lover of them, i have to agree with whiteblock the only plus of that tyre style is looks as there are no driving benefits at all that i have ever found, the main reason for this style as far as i can understand is the ability to lower the car to an unpracticle level so as to make it look good but be almost undriveable. what is the point of having a car that is almost undriveable 
still as you said toeach there own...regards ricky
still as you said toeach there own...regards ricky
#93
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Posted 09 February 2011 - 02:31 AM
couple more pics of the new wip
fair bit more work to do on the paint and to find some properly fitting alloys
fair bit more work to do on the paint and to find some properly fitting alloys
#94
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Posted 09 February 2011 - 09:59 AM
Now put that engine in the peugeot!
Another nice car.
Another nice car.
#95
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Posted 09 February 2011 - 12:25 PM
Wow, very nice. Somewhat of a change in direction!
Regarding the wheel/tyre debate that I completely skipped over, I don't really like or agree with stretched tyres (I witnessed two failing at the Retro Rides show a few years ago), but I love the wheels and that is what I was commenting on. Personally, I'd be terrified of using stretched tyres just for fear of kerbing the wheels!
Regarding the wheel/tyre debate that I completely skipped over, I don't really like or agree with stretched tyres (I witnessed two failing at the Retro Rides show a few years ago), but I love the wheels and that is what I was commenting on. Personally, I'd be terrified of using stretched tyres just for fear of kerbing the wheels!
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